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2001Monday, July 2Dear VTwin Mama, The problem is that the OTHER times, I'm tight as a drum and have a big knot in my stomach. My husband says that looking at me he can't tell that there's anything wrong, but my insides just won't give me a break! I really enjoy the riding and the camaraderie that it brings, but if I can't get over this tenseness in my belly I may give it up. I ALWAYS slow down in blind turns - I'm not so bad that it seems I've parked - but hubby says that I really should be able to maintain my speed. And I agree, I just don't trust what may be on the other side. My new mantra going almost constantly in my head is "just lean it, those big tires will hold it." Sometimes I do, but I really have to MAKE myself do it. All in all, I guess I'm just really nervous about the unknown --- I just don't know if riding is going to be for me. Do you know anyone who's been like this? Did they eventually conquer it? I used to have horses and was absolutely fearless until, through no fault of mine, I was hurt very badly on two different occasions - and I did take a fall that cracked my arm (not so badly I couldn't ride - but very painful) in my MSF class. I'm thinking seriously of letting my husband use my bike (as well as his own) to trade on a new Road Star that he's been lusting after. Any suggestions? P.S. - I LOVE this site. You do a really good job with it! – Yammering Yamama-mama
Dear Yammering, I gave your fears some thought as I rode through the curvy mountains on my way to the Mammoth Lakes Rally this past weekend. First, think of any off ramp from a highway you know. It's usually posted with a ridiculously low MPH -- if you're in a car, right? Right! That's because highway engineers figure that an idiot with poor driving skills in an old beater with bald tires could make it around the curve at that posted speed. Now, you don't think that the engineers change those signs when they see you coming down a curvy road on your motorcycle, do you? If you do, then paranoia has already set in, and the VTwin Mama doctor cannot help. So, do you see my point? They don't post speeds on curves, even blind curves, unless they really thought you could make it! Now, figure out why you feel wobbly sometimes. My stomach tightness is highest when faced with a blind curve heading down a hill when traffic is coming at me in the opposite lane. Yikes! What I have learned is to gradually slow down to the posted speed when I see the sign, make sure my knees are pulled in next to the bike, then concentrate on using my center of gravity (at the hips) to steady me while using my thighs, knees and hips to all move into the lean smoothly. That way, my body feels at one (!) with the bike (BE THE BIKE) instead of some poor hapless rider mounted on top of a high speed motor machine! This can be practiced on an open straight road. Get your body into position, feel your center of gravity at the hips and use your body to lean a little one way, then lean a little the other way and get a feel for how the bike handles. And remember, a successful lean into a curve requires some speed! Then, keep practicing. Or go back to a local riding school and request a private one-on-one class with an instructor to master the whole leaning thing. Maybe you are the type of person that once shown the physics of the thing, along with reality practice, will get it once and for all. Good luck and let us know how you are doing with this. – Mama Thursday, July 5Dear VTwin Mama, Well, my kids think I have lost my mind! My mother is saying novenas for me, I still haven't confessed to my father yet, and every well meaning person can't wait to tell me about "their friend" who's just been in a motorcycle crash and was severely injured or killed. No matter how much I try to enjoy my rides, those voices with the stories are in my head when I approach the blind curves and intersections as I watch for cagers that run the stop signals. I can commiserate with you when it comes to questioning "Is riding really for me?". I love riding but I don't love the butterflies that sometimes feel like an elephant stampede! I try to expel the voices and convince myself that I would be foolish not to be apprehensive. When you loose that I think carelessness can find it's way in. They're also reminding me at the same time that I need to watch for the unseen vehicle crossing over the center line in that blind curve and reminding me that there might be wet leaves, gravel, or a mirad of other things that I don't want to be unprepared for. When we get good at something, we tend to get cocky and lax when it comes to our responsibilities when piloting a motorcycle or any other motor vehicle for that matter - that's when accidents happen. VTwinMama has made good observations about centering and 'being one' with the bike. I guess the butterflies or voices, or whatever niggling feeling we get while riding, can't be all bad. Recognize them for what they are - thank them and take a quick inventory and see if that helps. Also, check into the Ridin The Wind web site and join us on The Wall. It's a great supportive community and we have lots of fun posting! VTwin Mama -- Great site! This is the first time I've gotten to check it out since I received your e-mail. Thanks! I can use all the help I can get! – Jean Neal (Blackcherry)
Dear Jean, Monday, July 9Hi there VTwin Mama,
Dear Barb, Monday, July 9Dear VTwin Mama, But after miles and miles I have learned to use that thinking time paying attention and working on my skills. Once in a great while I still get those knots, not for long and once I hop on my bike they are gone because I know I intend to be alert and cautious. I have read that the 3rd year of riding is the most dangerous of all, that is the time that we riders think we know it all and become a little cocky. So I guess that means it takes about 3 years for you to become a really good rider and that you still have to have a little fear so you do not become cocky. Also if you are a fairly new rider your husband needs to back off and let you ride your own ride. You don't have to keep up with all the experienced riders, get in the back and go your own pace. What I see in your email is that you need practice, practice, practice and in time those knots will disappear, but don't get cocky! And as far as age, you're as young as you want to be! – Barbara
Dear Barbara, Dear VTwin Mama, Ok, I confess, I use the standard "Y" pattern we first learned in Driver's Ed. Of course on a bike this only works if you are on fairly level ground, your feet touch enough to really push off and you remember not to hit the throttle by accident thereby scaring the living daylights out of yourself. Let's see what other VTwin Mamas can offer for advice. Anybody? – Mama Thursday, October 11 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear VTwin Mama, My boyfriend says I should be able to go at least 5mph over what the speed limit says if not 10mph on the motorcycle. Sometimes I feel like I'm being tailgated even though I'm doing exactly the speed limit! Everyone is in a hurry here in California! One more thing, I have a problem of U-turns
at red lights. I go way wide, any advice on things to practice or any
advice from experienced riders at all is invited! I'm lovin ridin, I just
want to be a better ! – Kat Let's look at this logically, meaning not from a guy's point of view. Why are you able to take a blind curve in a car at speeds above the posted limit? There are three reasons in my mind (the part that still works!). One, you've been driving a car like forever and probably have soooo many miles behind the wheel it would be too scary to really add it up. Two, your whole body is immediately available for damage on the bike, whereas in a car, it has to go through layers of steel to get to you first. And third, leaning is not a natural thing, at least not that I know, and you simple don't do it in a car, do you? So, what to do. One year of weekend riding is not an awful lot. Ultimately, you need to choose what is comfortable for you and if you're determined to gain some lean and speed in curves, then find a qualified instructor to help you analyze what you need to work on to make that happen. There's no shame in going back for a refresher course at motorcycle school or to enroll if you've never taken a course before. Don't just fall for the argument that "you should be able to do it because I can" thing. I'm going to maintain that some people are better leaners than others and I'll never be one of them. I have learned to at least maintain the speed limit but will not be bullied into going faster. That feeling of being tailgated -- it's real. People in cars are even ruder to bikes because let's face it, it's not like you're going to hurt them or do any real damage to them, are you? And they have soooo many miles behind the wheel . However, I can look quite maniacal when I see someone too close in my mirror and have been known to turn my head and scream at them or to slow down on purpose and then scream at them! I can just see the driver saying to the passenger, "Honey, stay back, she's a weirdo and might instantaneously combust." As for U-turns at the light, that's a matter of learning how to keep your bike in balance at low speeds. Have you ever seen riders approach a stoplight or slowdown in traffic and keep their bikes upright and yet on the verge of not moving? One way to do that is to pull in your clutch handle with the bike still in first gear and start coasting. Just when it feels like you need to get ready to put your foot down, ease out the clutch just a bit till it catches (but don't release it any further) and give it a little throttle for gas. Slip the clutch in and out and use your throttle in combination to maintain yourself upright at almost no speed. This technique can also be used to get yourself from a standstill at a light into a U-turn, the point being that you need to give it only the very minimum of gas and clutch to keep yourself up and do the corner. That's my best advice. I'm sure that other VTwin Mama sisters will voice their individual opinions on this subject and we'll print them all so that you get a balanced viewpoint. – Mama Friday, October 19 Look at all the letters that (the) Kat dragged
in! (I couldn't resist the joke. Sigh. See Kat's original
letter above taking curves too slow and U-turns too wide.) –
Mama Hello,
To Kat, who has trouble
taking curves fast enough, Hi Petra (aka VTwin Mama), Dear VTwin Mama, Are the women that hate left turns right handed? And how about the left handed women -- do you hate right turns like me? Left hand turns do not bother me at all. I am just curious -- there has to be some kind of logic to this. Wonderful site! I am so glad I found this place! – 7by9rd Dear 7by9rd, However, I never attributed it my right-hand orientation (as I was originally born a left-handed person). After some experimentation, I noticed that I am more at ease with right handed turns and leans because the throttle is on the right side and it feels more natural to have the speed control directly in motion with the right hand turn or lean. Does that make sense? Let's see what other insights the sisters of VTwin Mama might have to add! – Mama Dear VTwin Mama, I completed the MSF safety course in late July 2001 and have logged over 4300 miles on my bike but I am still uncomfortable in the curves, especially to the left and blind curves in either direction. Now, I don't crawl like a moped but I definitely don't fly like he does. I got tired of being a passenger and at the age of 47 with a grandchild I decided I was going to learn to ride myself. My husband has been riding for years and of course he just flies through the curves. He rides a BMW 1100RT and the only bike we could find for me ( I am vertically challenged with 26" inseam) is a Yamaha Star 650 Custom which I really love and can completely flatfoot. By the way, my husband actually bought the bike for me before I even took the course, he is a sweetie. Often I feel it is a difference in the style of bikes (His is a sport tourer and mine is a very low and long cruiser) plus my lack of experience that is causing uncomfortable feeling. We live in the foothills section of the NC mountains so every where I go there are curves and dips. Any suggestions on improving? Maybe I am a slow poke in the curves but I would rather be safe than sorry and I have told my husband such and also advised hem I am not going to go faster around the curves than I am comfortable. City traffic and highway traffic and speeds are not a problem for me so far. Thanks for any insight, – Debbie Dear Debbie, Probably because many of us have driven cars a lot longer than we've been on our bikes. And without the metal "cage" around us, we naturally feel more vulnerable, especially if cars are coming at us from the opposite direction. At least that is how I feel! That being said, I'm very proud of you for speaking up on this subject and acknowledging your current limitation and that you'll not be pushed to ride faster around curves if it is not comfortable! There's no point in going fast if it's going to put a chill up your spine. Yucko! Unfortunately, the only cure is practice, more practice and then when you're good and tired of that, even more practice! Every year I find myself weirded out on left leaning curves so what I do is I start by taking them at speeds I know I can handle. Then, on roads that I know the curves well, having been on them many times, I add 5 mph the next time I go around it and practice picking up a little speed. One way that I gain more control is to bump down one notch in gears, so if I'm naturally flying about in 4th gear, I go down to 3rd gear and so forth. I find that I have better response from the throttle (tighter control easing off and adding on) and can use less brake pressure to give me that control. That way, if I feel panicky, in a lower gear I can back off the throttle and lose speed quicker and just tap the front or rear brake to maintain. Let's see if any VTwin Mama sisters have methods to add to learn how to go through curves that give us the jitters. – Mama Input for Debbie who is trying to master riding curves: May I suggest an advanced rider course? I took a few laps around the track with the instructors at the one day Women's Conference and gained a bunch of curve help. I found out I was just doing it wrong, and it only took some constructive words from the instructor, a couple of more laps / figure 8's to get the idea, and now my technique is much improved. – April (note from Mama: good point -- it is always helpful to have an experienced, certified person look at your technique and suggest improvements) I too am pretty new to riding, and the curves do sometimes get that chill up my spine. I do downshift and slow up a bit, and I am very comfortable with that. I also (as Debbie) believe in better safe then sorry. I think that having a little fear on the bike makes you a little more aware and a little more cautious and there is NOTHING wrong with that at all. – Sharon, NY (note from Mama: nope, nothing wrong with listening to what your body is telling you, but when there is room for improvement, especially on a maneuver that must be used a lot, it's time to seek guidance!) I feel the same way. My boyfriend has been riding for many years and I am now going into my 5th season. I guess I just tried to keep up with him, then I decided to stay back and do the curves at my own pace. Once I ended up going through someone's front yard (they were sitting on their front porch) Ha-Ha! My first season I did have trouble with corners and curves, but with practice and experience you will be more comfortable-that's a promise. I just kept remembering what I was taught in MSF class. Start by going into the curve at a comfortable speed. Entry speed permits safe cornering and allows constant acceleration through the curve. Keep in your mind - SLOW, LOOK, LEAN, and ROLL. Always look through the curve to your planned path of travel and that is where you will go. I also started thinking of the Press left-lean left-go left (or right). This really helped me and now I feel much more comfortable in curves. I still don't fly through the curves as fast as him, but I don't have the jitters anymore. Hope that helps a little, ride safe. – Linda (note from Mama: thanks for a reminder of the most important points taught in class. Also loved the front yard story -- it goes to show that learning can be embarrassing, but no thing worth learning is really ever easy.) Friday, June 21 Dear VTwin Mama, The ride was not at 25-30 MPH, even on the curves! There were probably about 700-1000 bikes on the run, and the average speed in the mountains was probably 40-50. I took the first couple of curves with my nerves intact, then started to psych myself out. But two things made me keep it all together. One, was this little "guardian angel" voice named Mike (my ABATE instructor) telling me "slow, look, lean, roll. Look through the curve. Don't panic, just look where you want to go." This kept my wits about me, even when on the inside I was afraid. The second thing that made me keep it all together, was the will to live, the will to trust what I had been taught and not overanalyze it, and knowing that no one else could help me. I had to trust myself. And you know what, I stopped once at the halfway mark, took a 20 minute break to get my breath back, then jumped back on and continued the ride. I finished the ride with flying colors. Kept up with the pack, (I was in the middle somewhere), didn't dump it, took the curves better than some of the other people I saw, and felt an overwhelming sense of pride in myself that I accomplished something like this, and rode sensibly right through my fears. I think sometimes, our minds start to churn and we do a lot of negative self-talk. Sometimes, you just have to put that *&!$ out of your mind while riding, and think only about what you have been taught. Those instructors know their stuff, and that's what we pay them for. So, in my case, I told myself to quit the negative, scared thoughts, listen to that voice in my head telling me the right way to do it, and trust that the information I had been taught by ABATE was correct. And you know what, the information from ABATE is correct and it got me through the ride! I think the key word is TRUST. Trust what you have learned, believe in yourself that you can let go of your fear and do what you were taught, and trust your bike, too. (I also say a little prayer to the man upstairs each time before I leave for a ride! Doesn't hurt!) I'm a brand new rider (less than 3 months), who dumped a big bike in a turn on gravel before I took the ABATE course. So I know the fear and the pain of going rubber side up. But you know what? I wouldn't have dumped the bike, if I had taken the ABATE class first. I dumped it because I didn't know what in the hell I was doing. I used my uninformed instinct, and it was wrong. It's hard to let go of those fears once you have them, but you can do it! You have to let go of the way you "think" it should be done, and listen to what you were taught. Sometimes, it's hard to trust other people's advice, and turn off your instinct. But when it's a matter of life or death, I prefer to listen to the experts. – Stacie Carlson (note from Mama: such wise words that will no doubt help countless VTwin Mama sisters for a long time -- thanks for sharing!) Monday, June 24 From Debbie, who was looking for insight to getting better at handling the road curves: Thanks for all the input. I added floor boards to my bike and what a difference that made. Now my feet are a little more under my body and not completely stretched out to reach the pegs. This made a remarkable difference as I now feel more balanced. Even my "zippy" husband was amazed. I couldn't believe the difference. The floorboards also eased knee pain from an old non motorcycle accident and helped low back pain. – Debbie From Michele, who learned something reading all the "curve" input: Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! Sometimes we just need to hear it one more time.... Press into the curves. I too have been challenged by the curve monster. I couldn't figure out why I struggled, when so many people love the curves. I always tell myself, slow, look, lean and roll. But, I was forgetting the press. Instead I have been trying to muscle myself around each and every curve in the road. This weekend, we have put on about 300 miles, and each curve I had to remind myself to remember to press through the curve. It is so much easier to lean and look if you do it all right! One other item I found myself doing, was being in the wrong lane position. I couldn't figure out why right turns caused more stress then left. Well, most of the time, I'm in the second rider position, in the right portion of the lane. When making right turns or curves, I should be close to the center line. So, I have made a concentrated effort to be in the correct position of the lane for which ever way the road goes. Am I ready for the twisties of Deal's Gap? Not yet, but I will be soon if I continue the progress I've made this weekend. Thanks for the forum VTwin Mama! – Michele From VTwin Mama, who learned something herself about curves this weekend: Who says you can't teach an 'ol, well you know, new tricks! I went for a ride this weekend around Lake Tahoe which requires bunches of riding in the mountains, so I took the opportunity (once again) to work on my curve riding skills. Here's what I learned -- somewhere along the line, when I spent a lot of time cruising real slow on back roads in order to enjoy the scenery, I got use to having the road right under me in direct vision, and because I was usually only going 35mph or so, there was no need to look further out. Well, that didn't do me a heck of a lot of good when I was in fact riding with others at higher speeds. I realized this weekend that my focus was still on the immediate road when I entered a curve instead of looking out at the far point of the whole curve, as Linda suggested. Once I started to look through the whole curve, I naturally rode it without wigging out on what my body was actually doing. Now, I agree, I have mastered the leaning and balance skills already, but now understand that I couldn't use these to their fullest because I was looking only slightly ahead at the road instead of "seeing" the whole thing. Wow, I must have gained at least 10mph in curves that had thrown me in a tither! Sometimes you just have to relearn stuff! Thanks everyone for sharing your input -- your insights can get someone to thinking more on an issue. And that is VTwin Mama cool! – Mama Tuesday, August 27 Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Angela, Dear VTwin Mama, Dear Jean, Meaning, find an empty straight place with no obstacles. Go into first and then slow your self down as much as possible just by letting off the throttle. As the bike slows, pull in the clutch just a little to find the point where it "engages" and "disengages" the gear. This is called slipping the clutch. Now, if you engage the clutch just a tiny bit, just enough to engage it but no more, you'll be able to "goose" your bike just tiny amounts, enough to keep it upright and moving forward. If the bike has some forward motion, you can actually control the forward motion just by slipping the clutch lever in and out of engagement (when you need a little forward motion, engage, then slip it out again and keep doing this until you need some throttle (gas) for control). Try this all first in a straight line. Then you'll understand that it's not any harder to do around a cone. But I'll warn you, this is not an easy technique to learn right off the bat. I've tried to describe this as best I can, but the biggee is learning exactly where that "engage" point is and how to give the throttle just the tiniest amount of gas. Then use both together to keep yourself upright and moving forward in a continuing slowest forward pattern. Give it a whirl -- although it does take some practice, it's totally doable! Good luck on your test this weekend. – Mama Thursday, August 29 Dear VTwin Mama, When I took the safety course, I passed the cones part of the test in first gear. How I did it, I don't know because it was not a smooth transition at all. My advice is to put your bike in second gear, and just ease around the cones. I'm not sure if you are riding out on the street yet, but I constantly find myself stopping several feet behind the car in front of me. I don't stop completely, but I slowly ease my way forward without putting my foot down. I think this is slow riding skills practice, and it has helped me. Just a suggestion. You'll get it girl. Keep trying. – Terri in Baltimore (note from Mama: of course she'll get it -- but input like this helps the ol' confidence level -- just knowing that others have gone through this and made it too!) Monday, September 9 Dear VTwin Mama, In addition, yesterday, I had parked it in gravel, and the kickstand had sunk into the dirt about an inch. Granted, I was tired after riding all day, but I had a heck of a time getting it off the stand. There have been other times when if I have to lean the bike over to the right to get the bike off the stand, I can't lean it far enough (like if it was parked on a slope in gravel, etc) without fear of dropping it. I've gotten around it by easing out the clutch and moving the bike forward enough to where the kickstand comes back enough where I can get it up. But, this isn't the best practice. A friend says I should have the bike lowered to lower its center of gravity, and I realize basically that amounts to changing the shocks, for about $1000. I am wondering if you or anyone can tell me what lowering the bike will really do for me. As I said, it's not too tall, but I am rapidly losing my confidence and even practicing isn't helping me enough to get over this hump. Thanks!! – Sunishine Dear Sunishine, I don't know if this is cheating, but here is how I handle tight tight U-turns. Like a car! I do the turn as tight as I can without sacrificing my balance or comfort in the turn, then I stop, push the bike back with my feet while straightening the wheel and finish the turn -- a classic "Y turn" for a car. Or, sometimes, if the turn is tight and I have to do it in one shot -- I keep my feet on the ground and "walk" the bike around in neutral or in 1st gear but with the clutch pulled in so I can slip it in and out and nudge the bike forward and around. Ok, that works great for relatively flat surfaces. If the terrain is hilly, steep, icky, poopy, I ride until a better "intersection" is available for me to turn and make no excuses about it. And this is after 20+ years of riding! Remember, not all bikes have great turning capabilities and radius' and not all riders ever master this. Now, as to your parking woes. You've simply got to learn how to gauge your parking spot better. Stop getting your self into messes. First, get a disk to throw on uneven gravel, melting asphalt, etc. to keep your kickstand from sinking even a smidgen! Check our previous discussion this year from June 14 and then some days thereafter. Next, park so you never have to lean right on an incline that is going to potentially dump you over. Learn to U-turn a little in front of a spot and back your bike up into this spot. Then a little lean might be required to set the bike on its sidestand, but that should be doable. Also, I always check to see that if I park, can I back up the bike by myself with my feet? If it looks like I'm parking slightly downhill, then back the bike into the spot instead in so you can pull out of the slight incline going forward. We'll see if the VTwin Mama sisters have anything to add. My guess is that they will -- I'm just so psychic! – Mama Wednesday, April 9 For Joann who has general jitters but really can't stand those right turns: I have been riding off and on for 33 yrs. I still have a heck of a time turning right. If you notice, turning right we have to turn in a tighter radius. It feels like our bikes are about to tip over. Now this is where the fear factor comes in play because we have tipped our bikes over several times. One time I had to turn right into a very busy feeder road. Well guess what, I tipped my bike right in front of the Honda dealership. Luckily it happen in the parking lot. What made me feel better was Jim (hubby) ran over and help picked up my bike and second, a strange woman came over and asked me if I was ok. Then she tells me she did the same thing last week. Talk about scared. To get home I still had to get on that busy feeder road ;-( When we got home, Jim took me to all of the cul-de-sacs in our neighborhood and made me turn right and left. I was so mad at him (because I was scared I was going to drop the bike) but also grateful. It was better then going to a parking lot for me because it made me turn in smaller circles. Now I have more control when I turn in either directions. Still nervous with the right turns but I know I can do it. It's sometimes good to be a little scared. I am always hearing if you think your better then the bike it will take over. When you're afraid, for some reason it makes you more aware of what's going on around you. Keep the rubber side down and the wind in your face. – Marigold (note from Mama: so many lessons learned the hard way are the ones that stick with you no matter what! Sometimes we just have to wear that badge of courage high up on our sleeve for everyone to see because quite frankly they are the ones worth showing. Your survived! You learned! You're going to keep learning, by gumption, no matter what! So there!) Thursday, April 10 For Joann who has general jitters but really can't stand those right turns: For left or right tight turns it really helps to look where you want to go. What I do is put my handle bar in the direction and keep my eyes up and slowly give a little throttle. Start in a parking lot so if you turn wide you have space. Good Luck and have fun, I know that you are scared, so was I, but I know that if I can do it, so can you!!! By the way, I am so kitten to this sport, I learned how to ride at 44 years old and this is my second season. Riding is a skill -- the more you do it, the better you get… so ride baby ride. – Angela Kosar (note from Mama: just knowing we are not alone in the learning "curve" is a big help! Practice, practice, practice is another!) Dear VTwin Mama, I was trying that look right, press right thing. I wasn't sure how they meant to press. I pressed DOWN and no results! Finally the only thing that got me through it is when I jerked my head as far as I could to the right and I made it around. Since then I have found that they mean to press (forward) on the right handlebar to go right. This was made clearer to me by Keith Code who runs the California Superbike schools and was advised to practice this until I could turn the bike in any direction on demand 100% of the time. I have guys telling me how to do everything on this bike and they have never even heard of counter steering. It's hard to listen to them when it contradicts what the MSF class says and others who have to know what they are talking about when they are training others as their business. I am so glad I found this website because now I don't feel like such a baby about it! We women are usually the "glue" that holds are families together so it's hard to just get out there when you are such a beginner at the risk of being put out of commission from not being properly trained before getting out there with all the other crazy drivers! I just can't get over the fascination with motorcycles and the will to ride though so I've got to go for it. Thanks for being there, Mama! – Susan Lynch, 45-year-old beginner in Ashdown, Arkansas on her first bike, a 600 Shadow Dear Susan, Leaving the safe confines of the parking lot to make your first voyages into the "real" world is a toughie, but ultimately has to be braved if one expects to actually get anywhere (literally and figuratively speaking!). My theory is that everyone has their favorite methods for learning the various riding skills needed. Listening to others is good -- but ultimately, practice is the key to determining how you will make your bike work for you. If a person has never taken a course or read a book on motorcycling techniques, then yes, the word counter steering is probably not in their vocabulary. Still, they have figured out for themselves what works to get the bike around a curve in the road. This is what I call the "error and trial" method -- as often times there is more error to begin with and the trials (and accompanying tribulations) are still to come! Stick with it sister -- you are not a baby, not alone, and we believe in you! Your letter is now forever logged onto the Jitters Page, where the next woman who finds it by accident will benefit from your message! Isn't that so cool?! – Mama Share Your ThoughtsTop For Susan who is getting use to the concept of counter steering: The first time my instructor took me out on the road I had never heard about counter steering, I could get around corners but if I had to swerve around something on the road I had no clue. My instructor was a fabulous guy and explained things very well. Counter steering consists of just pushing on one side, pushing on the right curves you right, left curves left. The most fun way to practice is to find a section of road, straight & clear of cars, get up to about 30 or 40mph then casually zig zag around the road by pushing alternately on each side. Don't be stiff, go with the flow and have fun with it. Takes no time at all to get used to. My instructor had me zigging all over the street and flipping through roundabouts by the end of the first hour! Easy when you know how. Regards, – Marion, ShadowPuss (note from Mama: practice in a place that is clear of "obstacles" is always good advice, but you're right -- if someone has a death grip on the handlebars, it's not so easy to learn this technique! Sigh. Still, practice ultimately is the only way to learn.) Share Your ThoughtsTop Tuesday, July 15 For Marion who wrote in with support for Susan who is learning counter steering: Thanks Marion. I wish everyone would come to my house and we can all work on this together! Especially all the ones with jitters - we wouldn't be pushing each other because we would all be in the same boat! – Susan (note from Mama: one of the things I learned at the recent WOW ride-in is that some chapters offer a mentoring program. They match an experienced rider with a newer rider. It might be worth your time to contact the women's riding organizations in your area to explore the possibilities! See the links at the bottom of my home page to start your research!) Wednesday, August 6 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Nancy, If you want to improve this skill, you need to practice in a non-threatening setting. Find a big enough space to set up some cones or other marking devices that simulate the U-turn. Now, practice the turn, each time trying the turn a little bit faster so that you learn the dynamics of the bike and how it handles when you're giving it quick throttle in a tight space. Find out where your "quickness" limit is. Then stick to this when faced with a similar situation -- so what if you have to wait a bit for cars to pass so that you have enough time to make the turn within your own comfort zone. As to the humiliation -- well, buck up kiddo! You're not the first and you won't be the last. It's important to learn how to laugh at these little oopsies, but then have the smarts to go practice it so you're comfortable with it in the future. There are no short-cuts to good riding skills -- ever! – Mama Dear
VTwin Mama, I still can't get a clear picture in my mind of exactly what happened, but I went over to the right and parted company with the bike ,which slid along for a way before going over on the left side and doing most of the damage there. The only experience I have ever had that compares to what I felt in that instant is the spatial disorientation my flight instructor used to induce deliberately so that I would learn to recognize it and hopefully be able to take action. The only thing to get your sense of equilibrium back is to get straight and level using the attitude indicator and other instruments in the cockpit. It takes some practice and some few moments to be able to do that, but in a plane there is a whole lot more time and distance available than on a bike. I have had trouble with left turns a lot since I started back riding, but just figured it was due to some innate klutziness that I could overcome with time and practice. It wasn't until got into it deep enough the other day to start getting the idea that it was a little more involved. I took my first road trips and began to notice that I was having to really bear down and concentrate on curves to the left and at speed, even in a modest left curve, I would start getting a rising sense of not being in control, At moderate speeds in left turns it was all I could do to avoid going over the centerline, trying to straighten it out . . . or shoot too wide. I am strongly suspicious that I , unknowingly, have developed some glitch in my equilibrium mechanism that only appears when I'm trying to effect a left turn on a bike. I never had such a problem in planes, being able to make steep left turns easily. This has probably crept up on me in just the last few years. Peculiar as it can be, but I don't know what can be done about it. I know I can't afford any more crashes trying to figure it out by experimentation. If you can supply any insight, I would appreciate all your help. – Gary Dear
Gary, Otherwise, you're talking to a gal that has a naturally built in fear of left hand curves -- but that's because I missed the left hand portion of an S-curve many years ago, bit my front tire into gravel and then flew through the air to land (rather rudely) in a bean field and soft dirt. Bent the bike up a bit, trashed a muscle near my collarbone which eventually healed and wounded my pride some what. So, the fear is still there, although I make a deliberate effort to overcome it. Most of my problem lies in some idiotic need to look down at the ground. This probably comes from my days as a gymnast when it was useful to look down at the 4" wide balance beam to make sure I was going to stay on it! But it's wrong, wrong, wrong on a bike. We've had a number of past discussions on taking curves, with instructive commentary on counter steering techniques, looking far into the curve, etc. If you didn't find my Riding Techniques -- Curves/Turns page, now is the time to read up a bit. Also, may I be so bold as to offer this suggestion -- consider taking/re-taking a motorcycle riding safety course -- perhaps intermediate level -- to work on your lean to curve ratio technique under the watchful eye of a qualified instructor. You've not been riding for many, many years and brushing up is not a bad idea. Or, check out Motorman's Ride Like a Pro video for an instructive view on things. You may just be pushing or pulling (or not) something slightly off beat that you won't recognize until you re-review appropriate methods. – Mama Dear
VTwin Mama, Taking curves well (this was a very wide hwy type rode), nothing real hard. Ok the problem came on my way home, just cruising along, taking a pretty wide curve and its like the bike would not turn for me. I went off onto shoulder and finally somehow got it back on the road, but was so fearful. Did I not lean, maybe just froze up? Elbows locked? I know it wasn't the bike lol but it really has me fearful it will happen again. Have you heard anyone having this problem? I realize I'm new and it was my first ride. But if it happens again I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong to correct before its too late. Can you tell it shook me up? lol – Cindy Dear
Cindy, Ok, let's think of what might have happened. First real ride, 18 wheelers whizzing by, starting to relax, and then . . . boom . . . no response to a fairly easy curve. Where were your eyes? Bikes tend to follow where your eyes are looking. If they were intent on the road directly below or in front of you, that's a no, no, no. You must look "through" the far end of the curve. What where your hands doing? Any pushing or pulling on the handlebars? What were you thinking? Newer riders need to really concentrate on technique and not let minds wander despite the beauty of the ride or how well they've been doing. Boom . . . a little meandering of the mind . . . and you're in trouble. Concentrate till something is second nature (and then never wander too far from the task at hand no matter how long you've been riding!). Ok, what to do. Read this letter. It's about counter steering and how Marion practiced the technique in order to master curves. Nothing like a first hand account to tell how she did it. You need to do it. Then apply it on a real road. Now, don't beat yourself up. It could have been better, but it could have been worse. Remember, life is all about continuous learning, so get out there and do some more of it! – Mama Friday, November 14 For Gary who goofed up a curve and thinks he has equilibrium concerns: A couple of reinforcements of what you told Gary about turning and one other possibility, (outside the realm of something is actually wrong with his equilibrium.) Gary I’m glad yours was a “live and learn” crash, I join you and VTM in the ranks with the left turn blues. (my crash was a lefty too!) As VTM suggested , take a class under the trained eye of an instructor that can assess what is going on and can offer some corrections. That would be the best way. Okay, with that said….. I’d be the last to tell you I’m an expert at armchair coaching, but there were some tell tale things that you said that are flags of certain corrections needed. But without seeing it, I’m only speculating. But since you asked…… :) What you described as “getting a rising sense of not being in control” and “it was all I could do to avoid going over the centerline” suggests you’re not looking through the turn but at the ground (as VTM said) just ahead of the bike. “Fighting” to keep the bike off the centerline, says you’re looking at the centerline, not well ahead through the turn. That mantra of “the bike goes where you look” is so true. Keeping head and eyes up, looking as far ahead through the turn as you can, should give you an in control, good feeling in turns. The issue of spatial disorientation is completely within the realm of technique. If as you are leaned over, in a turn, if your head is tipped/leaned over with the rest of you, it does affect your equilibrium. Try walking around with your head tipped to one side or the other, and you’ll find out real quick how your balance is affected. Same thing while riding. Keeping your head and eyes level with the horizon helps maintain balance. Take a look at road racers hot in a turn, leaned over, knee to the ground. But their head is up and level to the ground. That’s an extreme example, but you get the idea. Again, finding a riders course where an instructor can pick these things out as you are doing them and help with corrections is the best suggestion. Good luck and kudos to you for searching for the answer. – HammerLady@ShinnysideUp.com (note from Mama: boy, that thing with walking with your head tilted really hammered (!) the concept home -- thanks for putting it in terms that anyone can understand.) Wednesday, November 26 For Cindy who missed an easy curve (note -- everyone should read this): I was just reading Cindy's account of how she was doing great on her first ride away from the parking lot until she goofed on an easy curve. I believe that the primary reason for this kind of mistake is simply fatigue! This was Cindy's first ride and must have been much longer and more tiring mentally than her previous work in the parking lot. Even though she must have felt exhilarated by the ride, she may have exhausted her ability to be attentive. I had a very similar thing happen over the past weekend on my way home from Louisiana (toward the end of a seven hour ride). Since getting my license and then my Moto Guzzi California Stone, I've ridden solo from Texas to New York, to New Mexico, and to Missouri. Even though I had some long days, I didn't really have any real problems or goof-ups. However, my boyfriend rode pillion with me to Louisiana over the weekend. This was our first longer trip together on the Stone. On the way there, we had lots of breaks, but we took few on the way home (Cold and rainy! Just get me home!). Just about forty miles from home, I pulled off for a final gas stop, stopped at the end of the off ramp, realized the left to get on the street was pretty sharp, and started to turn. A loud noise from above on the overpass distracted me (I thought maybe I missed some traffic to the left), and by the time I glanced down the road and back ahead, I was off course for my turn. I could have leaned, rolled on the throttle, and still made the turn, but with Ron on the back, I realized it just wasn't happening. As soon as I realized I wasn't going to make the turn, I picked a nice spot on the opposite shoulder to pull to a stop on. I regrouped, we took a good rest at the gas station, and made the rest of the trip without difficulty. I realized afterwards that the cold and wet, in addition to Ron's extra weight on the back (the passenger business makes everything more difficult!), made me more fatigued more quickly than I get riding in a warm, dry, solo situation. I'm also thinking now that if you get that feeling that you're not going to make a simple curve, if there's a safe "out" (like stopping in a controlled manner on the shoulder instead of doing the turn), there's no shame in taking it. Better an under-control straight stop than an out-of-control curve. In fact, this also happened to me in my MSF class last December! We were doing small circles around and around to the right and suddenly, I just wasn't going to go around anymore! I still remember watching the circle peeling off to the right, and thinking "Hey, wow! I don't seem to be going around it! Where am I off to?" I pulled off the circle in a straight line. After stopping and reorienting, I rejoined my classmates on the circle. Of course, the immediate problem often has to do with not looking where you want the bike to go (or not counter steering properly or whatever), but I think that a lot of the time, the ultimate reason is simple fatigue. Just thought I'd add my two cents. Thanks, as always, for the site! – Marina (note from Mama: kudos to you for handling a potentially icky situation by using your brain and sharing your fatigue theory which is really a great point. How many times have each of us over reached our endurance? By the by, not to embarrass Ron or anything, but what a great guy you have -- a big hug from every VTwin Mama sister who has been there and done that! It takes talent, experience and trust to ride well without handlebars to hang on to!) Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
No Name, Monday, May 3 Dear
VTwin Mama, Can you give some advice for making a left hand turn, without going into the wrong lane. I am trying to pretend like there is a 4 way intersection with a car on my left and I have to turn and avoid it. I am doing the "point the bike in the direction of the turn" for a right hand turn. That is working pretty well but it is the left hand turn that I am having a hard time with. – Angela Dear
Angela Hmmmm . . . try this in an empty parking lot with plenty of room and no obstacles. Head in a straight line in 2nd gear. Now, gently push on the left end of the handlebar. See how quickly it wants to move the bike to the left? Get the feel for this and see how you can maintain your grip on both ends while doing the push motion. Now, in that same straight line, alternate your push from left to right and see how you do a nice snake movement. Easy does it! So, at a stop light, when you set for the left turn, you get into first gear and immediately use this same technique to move the bike to the left just the amount you want to. You can set up imaginary markers in the empty space to mimic an intersection and practice. – Mama Wednesday, May 5 More about making right hand turns: Another thing you might consider when making a right hand
turn is to begin as close to the center line in your lane (left of the left
track) as you can then "straighten the curve," cutting off the
apex, and finally ending the turn in the same location you
started, close to the center but still on your side of the line. MFS
course says, outside-inside, outside. And don't forget to lean. I have
to hold back on the left grip a little to keep from having "chopper
flop" but leaning really does work. Just don't lean so much you
drag your footpeg! Hope that helps! – Rhonda in
Springfield, MO (note
from Mama: every bit of information is good because one explanation may
trigger a "how to do it" for one person, while another helps
someone else!) Thursday, May 6 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
No Name, Thursday, May 6 Even more (!) about making right hand turns: After taking the MSF riding course last year after a 20
year hiatus I learned all sorts of things I never knew. The biggest,
most helpful lesson I learned was what they call "Visual
Directional Control." They actually make you TURN your
head in the direction you want the bike to go just as you are preparing to
make the turn and it is the weirdest thing to get used to doing because
you want to look at the ground, the lines on the road, your front tire,
anything but the place you are headed. But it works!!!!! It
goes against all your natural instincts to look where you're going but in
actuality, if you turn your head and look in the direction you want to
go...the bike just seems to follow. It takes a conscious effort to
do it every time, but the more you do it the more it becomes a habit.
I still struggle with doing it every time but I do know that it works like
a dream when I remember to do it! Hope this helps. –
Lou (note
from Mama: of course! I completely forgot that it's very easy to be
looking everywhere except the direction you want to go! And it does make a
difference! I practiced this technique on mountain curves and found that
my jitters lessened considerably because I was envisioning my path before
I got there. Good point! Useful in many situations!) Dear
VTwin Mama: So my husband and I headed to a parking lot. Which in my rural neighborhood was a 20 minute ride in itself (made it with flying colors). I then Practiced the U turns and the circles and slow maneuvers. I did not drop the bike -- not one time. The entire time I was doing this I just reminded myself that I am not alone. VTwin Mama promised and there are others that feel this way and are winning the battle so I can too. I did about an hours worth of practice. My husband then asked if I was thirsty! Which I was very thirsty by then. So he said ok lets go to the store! I did not realize the store was going to be in town and 30 minutes away! I still made it! Through the stop lights, through the Sunday 4:00 pm traffic! I did it! Thanks to you, your website, the videos! and my Husband. Thanks VTwin Mama, I still plan on a lot more of practice time, but I now know I can do it too! With lots of appreciation!– Ladykruzer Dear
Ladykruzer, Wednesday, May 12 For Ladykruzer who learned stuff from the Ride Like a Pro video: I thought this was interesting and might be worth mentioning. I bought the Ride Like A Pro Video (before the Ladies version was available) and was intrigued about the suggestion to "feather" the back brake to make the bike "want to stand up". I asked the instructors in my MSF class about it and they said that's something they introduce in the Experienced Rider Course. This advanced class requires a motorcycle endorsement (6 mo. or 1 yr. minimum, I forget which) and you ride your own bike for the class. They added that they want riders to have mastered the clutch/throttle control and lose the fear of leaning the bike. They work on collision avoidance, emergency maneuvers, and cornering. And these particular instructors highly regarded Mr.
Palladino's video. – Linda Carruth (note
from Mama: high praise for the video, coming from the MSF people! Their
Experienced RiderCourse requires 6 months or 3,000 miles of current riding
time to participate. I do see the point MSF is making with their structured
approach to control of the bike, but glad that Ladykruzer is practicing a
technique which is making a huge difference in her confidence now!) Monday, May 24 Dear
VTwin Mama, I am a new Harley obsessed woman who loves her Low-Rider but it seems like at slow speeds, when making a left or right turn it kind of catches and it reaches a point of no-return, the front end just goes all the way back, depends on which direction I was turning and it takes everything in me to pull it back where it belongs. Unfortunately, on one humiliating occasion I just couldn't pull it back together and dropped my beautiful bike in front of an entire group of people at a gas station, not to mention completely freaking my husband and sister out as they looked over and saw me "sprawled out," just mad and embarrassed as I could be that I had scratched my turning signal! I can usually feel it starting to happen and I am constantly monitoring for it. I just wonder if this is something I will eventually feel more comfortable with or am I just always going to be paranoid since I dropped the bike? If the Dynas are different, is there anything you can tell me to help me overcome this? I will appreciate any insight you can give me on this and thanks again for doing what you do. – BC Dear
BC, I also think that mastering slow speed turns is one of the most challenging skills to contend with -- and have often counseled women with similar problems to get the Ride Like a Pro video (and there is a women's specific video now) which explores the dynamics of slow speed and explains how your bike is working against you until you realize what it's actually doing! This might be an excellent next step for you. And of course, if women with the same bike as yours write in, I'll be posting messages with what they have to say about the whole mess! My condolences to the turn signal and the boo-boo it endured, but thankfully you are ok with a little ego bruise that one day will make a great story around the campfire. Been there, told those stories! Welcome to the clan! – Mama Tuesday, May 25 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Shirl, Practice is the key, but not on the actual road with sharp curves! Take that bike to an empty parking lot with room to make a straight run that poses no obstacles of any major kind. Then, get up to various speeds and try a combination of things. First, try just releasing the throttle to learn how quickly the bike reacts (quick bleed off of speed or slower to respond) and does it do this the same way when you try it at 30mph, 40, etc. Now, with that knowledge under your belt, do the same thing with a little bit of added brake. How does the control feel? Continue this exercise until you have found your perfect combination of throttle release and brake application to give you the control you are looking for. The added point is that if the bike is slow to respond, you'll need to set up for sharper curves farther in advance. But once you understand how the bike will respond, you are in position to deal with these challenges. Glad you like the site and hope these suggestions help! – Mama Tuesday, May 25 Dear
VTwin Mama, I am taking my motorcycle safety course this weekend and then will have my MC endorsement. I purchased a '98 VStar three weeks ago and just love it. My little pretty has a custom paint job and is beautiful. I have practiced in a remote area where there are many paved roads but the area never developed. My biggest problem (which I hope will be corrected this weekend . . . at least learn the right way ) is starting off and having to make a left or right turn. Throttling down, then letting the clutch out and TURNING all at once has been a problem for me . . . mostly just fear of that clutch slipping off the tips of my fingers. I have read the post of the different levers and clutches and want to say thank you so all those who wrote in shared the info. BTW - In the last two years I have put in over 24,000 miles on the back of a Wing and now ready to do my own driving. THANK YOU (yes I shouted) so much for this site. Going to print out the address and share it with my other lady classmates. – Susan Elliott Dear
Susan, And thanks for sharing my website address -- it's the continual visits by regular and new readers that keep the questions, responses and observations flowing, fresh, and applicable to women's (and men's) riding concerns. It's what defines this site and I'm proud that for over three years the site continues to grow. – Mama Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
HD Hawk, Tough, as I consider ending my day's journey comfortably (aka, alive) an important consideration! However, if this was something I truly wanted to conquer as you do, I would seriously consider taking an advanced riding course like the one offered by the MSF. Here's part of the one day course description: "Using your own motorcycle, you'll put into practice the techniques of managing traction, controlling rear-wheel skids, stopping quickly, cornering and swerving." While this may not be immediately apparent to you, these techniques are exactly the ones you need to understand the dynamics of how a bike handles in more "extreme" situations -- and what is mountain riding but controlled chaos?! Why not ring up the local course headquarters and inquire?! I have a feeling that under the watchful eye of a qualified instructor you would soon master that which is a challenge right now. It's worth a phone call or email! You might also take some time to read through previous postings on my Curves/Turns Page which chronicles similar questions, responses and observations. There might be something in there to help! – Mama Wednesday, June 2 For HD Hawk who is trying to master mountain hairpin curves: I have been riding for going on 3 years and I still have trouble with those tight hairpins, especially up or downhill. Downhill ones mostly bother me. This year I've been making a huge effort to get through them smoother and faster, and have done some reading in different books and magazines about riding techniques and I've also taken a good hard look at myself and how I ride and have come up with a couple of things that may help. I noticed that when I would come up on one of these difficult turns, I would get a little nervous feeling in my stomach, unconsciously thinking, Oh no, here comes one. When I get that feeling now, I squash it immediately, because even the slightest nervousness doesn't help at all. Being relaxed makes it much easier to ride. Can she ride with someone who's good at those curves? I started making my husband go first and started paying attention to where in the lane he would set up for a curve and follow his lead. I had been starting out too far away from the outside path to enter the curve and would constantly have to readjust through the curve. Once I started doing this I improved a lot. Concentrate on smoothness, not speed. Once you get smooth through the curves, speed will come. Always remember the outside/inside/outside path. It works. Always at least tap the brake before going into a curve. I read somewhere that this sets the suspension of the bike in preparation for rolling on the throttle. And do roll on the throttle. I kept catching myself letting off when going through sharp curves just by instinct, and this only serves to stand the bike up and make you go straighter. Roll on the throttle and it will pull you into the curve better. I have found that this technique actually works in a car also, so I practice my curves all the time this way, whether on the bike or in the cage. I'm sure she's heard this a million times, but look through the curve to the exit point. This may be the most important thing. You do go where you look. I was catching myself looking down to see where I was on the road and totally screwing up. Look where you want to go. I have also improved my riding techniques greatly just by getting another bike. I was riding a Honda Shadow VLX for my starter bike and this year purchased a brand new Suzuki Volusia. Although the Volusia is about 100 lbs heavier it's actually easier to ride and I find myself taking the curves much faster than I used to on the Shadow. It's easier to handle and is much more responsive to steering inputs, and with more power to pull you through the curves. The Sportsters are known to be top heavy and may be a little more difficult to ride through the twisties, I don't know. And last but not least, don't worry so much about it. I thought I was doing really bad on the tight twisties but was out riding with a group one day and had several men who were riding behind me come up to me and say, hey, you really know how to ride. One was my husband, and he tends to be a little harder on me than other people, only because he knows how I want to get to be a great rider. I was totally surprised because the ride we had taken was really hilly, twisty, etc. and in my mind, I thought I was slowing down too much before hitting the bends. They all assured me that I was doing awesome. Go figure. I usually am my own worst critic. And one of the guys who was riding last was falling way behind on some of those curves, I noticed him in my rearview mirror. He said he gets nervous too and slows down through those tight bends to a speed that he feels comfortable at. He said that's why he rides last all the time so he doesn't hold anyone up if they want to go faster. This is a guy who's been riding for years, and he has no problem with the way he takes the curves, all he cares about is his comfort level. So don't sweat it so much! – Robyn H. Cubakovic (note from Mama: reading your letter just makes me want to go out and get a little bit more proficient myself! Lots of good pointers here and I agree that setting up behind a good rider who handles the twisties better is a great teaching aid. I even remember feeling even worse than normal once on my HD when I finally realized that I had overfilled the air in my tires which caused me more problems in curves. Attention to detail counts!) Tuesday, June 8 More for HD Hawk who is trying to master mountain hairpin curves: Keeping your eyes level (not necessarily with the road) helps with cornering. Also on slow hairpins, it helps to keep your body upright. These help with equilibrium, sight (you can see more of what's ahead), as well as control and balance of your machine. – No Name (note from Mama: good reminders that paying attention to body position is a big help!) I ride a 883 Hugger a 1991, I know this is going to sound funny, but before riding your motorcycle if you have one, ride your bicycle around a few curves or corners and see how your body reacts to the curves. Watch your hands feet and body and especially your eye's, where are your eye's? VTM is absolutely correct the MSF course teaches you exactly what you need to know on taking curves. My instructor was very good and told me you can always go slow on curves, but too fast and well we know what could happen. Riding your bicycle will help out with two things working those legs out and handling curves. Try taking the curve as fast as you can peddle and see what the legs do, see what happens when you peddle really fast and really slow. This is a cool trick I learned when I was learning to ride dirt bikes. Try and make your body lean as much as you can on the bicycle and then get on the motorcycle it is the almost the same thing except with lots more power, but only as fast as you can peddle (throttle). Hope this helps. – ST (note from Mama: what a fantastic suggestion on hopping back on a bicycle, which most of us have plenty of practice on! Way cool!) Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Susan, Wednesday, June 9 Dear
VTwin Mama, When it came to those nasty tight figure eights, I decided to do my best and not let it mess up my mental state for the rest of the test. I made the first part, but blew the second U turn. Shrugged it off and went on. This is so important for those taking the test to not allow a mistake to shake your concentration for the rest of the driving test. After all, you have so many points you can miss so let it go if you flub and concentrate on the next task. As my husband pointed out, how many times have you seen bikers actually using the super tight figure 8 pattern out on the streets? Never. BUT it is a great practice exercise in gaining more stability and control. I kind of wonder why they require it rather than just a tight U turn followed by maybe a tight curve. Actually if I was instructing I would have a rider do a large figure eight/ U turns and then pull in the boundaries gradually. This is not an easy skill and I noticed the men were more successful than the women. More upper body strength? More weight to shift? Thanks so much for the reply on my question last week about how to complete one successfully. – Susan Dear
Susan, Wednesday, June 9 For Sarah who is trying to master figure 8's: I consider myself as a newbie, this is my third summer of riding my own. I remember taking the MSF course twice (passed the first time, but wanted a refresher and signed up a second year), and the figure 8's were the hardest. What I found the easiest in getting through the 8's is: 1st gear, counter-balance and using the clutch to adjust the power to the bike. I found by pulling in the clutch slightly around each turn and letting it out SLOWLY in the straights, kept me going just the right speed to feel in control without going to fast. You just need to practice to see what works for you. I did experiment in 1st and 2nd gears, the problem I always had was going to fast and not having time to slow down enough in-between turns. – Sue in Genoa City, WI (note from Mama: ok, first gear it is!) I had a hard time doing that in my MSF course as well. This is what my instructor, a great guy, told me and it really works. Settle yourself comfortably on you bike. Stay in 1st gear. Start at the very outside of the box. As your going into the turn, let the handle bars fall gently almost resting on the gas tank, turn your head to a fixed point almost behind you and just let the bike take the curve. As you come out of that curve let the handle bars fall to the other side. Fix your head an eyes on another point (almost behind you) to your other side and let the bike take the turn. You don’t need to make the bike do anything. If you let the handle bars fall in the direction you want it to go, keep enough gas on it to keep you going and don’t look down the bike will take the figure eight. Most of the time you either drop the bike or go outside of the box because your nervous, looking down or not turning the handle bars enough. It takes
practice but I know you can do it. My instructor stood directly behind me
and made me turn my head until I could see him. The bike just kind of
followed my eyes. As my head turned so did the bike. The reason I say stay
in 1st is because you have more control, you don’t have to
worry about shifting once in the box and taking a turn at the same time.
Most importantly relax. DON’T WORRY YOU WON’T DROP THE BIKE. You’ll do
great, don’t rush yourself , take your time, focus and don’t worry about
anyone else watching. In the box it has to be just you and your bike.
You’ll do great!! One thing they didn't teach our class in the MSF was how to feather your clutch in the corners. Even though I passed the figure eight it was very difficult. It wasn't until I got the Ride Like a Pro Video for Women that I learned the technique and boy when I went to a parking lot to practice it made "all" the difference in the world. And just remember to look all the way in the opposite direction when you are maneuvering your turn. The video helped in all aspects of slow maneuvers no matter how large or heavy your bike is. I never rode before, started in the class on a 250 Rebel. My husband bought me a Big Dog Husky (1750) which was way too big...so he bought me a Honda Shadow 600 to practice on in the parking lots and on road until I am comfortable enough to ride my Big Dog. I too get squeamish "every" time I go to ride, but it is getting a little bit less each time....not sure if it will ever go away! Anyway hope that helps!! – Kristie (note from Mama: every letter of support helps and I'm not surprised that the video helped -- we've heard so many great things about it!) Thursday, June 10 Dear
VTwin Mama, I bought a BLACK Honda VT 750 Shadow Aero. It is a SWEET bike. I have added some chrome (who doesn't?) and of course a Memphis Fats windshield, saddle-bags, and made it a solo rider. I put a chrome rail where the passenger seat was. Why did I wait so long to have fun? I completed the MSF Riders Edge course and that helped me to hone my riding skills. But, I have only one problem, the RAKE on my 750 VT makes it difficult to turn tight, left or right U-turns. You really have to work the clutch, throttle and rear brake. My husband tried to do the figure 8 and he even had a difficult time. He has ridden for 40 years. I was wondering if any of the other ladies that ride cruiser style bikes has the same problem? I practice my figure 8 at home and in the parking lots and I know it will come around eventually. Your site is awesome and very informative. I am 53 years old, 5'4", 125#, I have two grown children, 5 grand children. I owned a business for 15 years and retired 3 months ago. I have put 800 miles on my bike in 2 months and that is just around the county. No long trips. – Temporary CKK Dear
Temp CKK, The fact is that all bikes have their quirks, and the one you describe (rake angle hindering tighter turns) is no exception. I recall that a male friend had to borrow my Honda Shadow 750 because he just couldn't do the weaving cone test on his Ducati (to get his U.S. license). One of the great things though is that you're practicing the maneuver on the bike to it's fullest extent! And that's as far as you'll be able to take it. And I surely couldn't do them on my '76 HD Superglide because the front end was raked out further and it's just not going to happen. Still, I've learned what the limits of the bike and my riding skills are, and am able to negotiate everything I need in normal riding situations (as I've learned what the bike and I can do together!). I think this is the point of my rambling on about it!– Mama Saturday, June 12 More for Sarah (and anyone) who is trying to master figure 8's: For Sarah, Sue, Karen, Kristie and any others that dread Limited Space Maneuvers a.k.a. (dramatic music please) “The BOX”. No, in real life riding we’ll probable never do tight figure 8’s, but we are faced with tight U-turns not always to the left or always to the right, thus the practice at going both directions producing a figure 8. “The Box” for those of you that don’t know is actually a rectangle. It’s tested at 20’x 60’. But we start the students at 24’x 60’, telling them to work down at their own pace. That’s for bikes UNDER 500cc. For the ERC or bikes over 500cc’s the students get to test at 24’x 70’ working down from 28’x 70’. The point of riding “the box” is to learn a new riding technique or a combination of techniques. I have my assistant coach ride the demo using all of methods available for the students to experiment with while using counter weighting. And to find which method works for them. Could be, first gear and feathering the clutch (friction zone), could be first gear, no clutch work and dragging the rear brake, or a combination of both friction zone AND rear brake. Could be second gear with rear brake or second gear with no clutch or brake, because the throttle is less ‘jerky’ in second. With ALL these methods, counter weighting is the one technique they are urged to learn. However I’ve see students ride it on sheer balance alone. And like everything thing else, turning your head and looking where you want to be, is key. And that doesn’t include looking down at the ground or lines (bike goes where ya look... and that includes down...remember?) But the point that I make as a coach is that THEY need to find what works for them. Like picking up a dropped bike, it’s technique more than strength that works best in getting around those tight turns. I know this to be true because I can ride my Intruder 1400 through the 20’x 60’ with room to spare. (Counter-weighting, 1st gear, friction zone with a tad of rear brake) and there is a limit to my upper body strength. Truthfully I think the biggest key in getting through “the box” is confidence. Ride into that thing BELIEVING you can do it. Next is to trust yourself AND the bike. So many times I hear “I can’t do it” before they’ve even tried and the self-prophecy comes true. How many things have you succeeded at something by starting out with “I can’t do this”? Believe in yourself. We do. – HammerLady (note from Mama: thank you for taking the time to share more details about what the box actually entails -- it's helpful to hear from a seasoned instructor like yourself on the finer points with an added "can do" spirit!) Just a quick note about the figure-8 on the test, in case it helps anyone (it sure helped me). The second time I took the MSF class, the instructors told us that it wasn't a test-killer because you can only lose 8 points. This much we know, because it was just mentioned by one of your readers. However, one of the instructors told me aside that they can score 5 points for going out of the box and/or 5 points for putting a foot down (the max. being 8). She told me that I should go out of the box if I had to, but don't put a foot down. I went waaaaaay out of the box on the second turn but the foot never went down, so I only lost 5 points. – Linda Carruth (note from Mama: this seems like a dignified solution for anyone who wants to pass but realizes that figure 8's are going to take more practice!) Tuesday, June 15 Dear
VTwin Mama, I went for the course and out on the range picked a bike with the license plate - MATTHEW as is my son's name. Well, I fought and fought with that bike. Can't remember make. Throttle so touchy if you moved it a tinge would surge. Not good in all those slow riding exercises. On second day I developed a severe stomach problem due to antibiotics I was on and had to leave 2 hrs shy of finishing. ( Lost 2 lbs that day). I went back to finish last day riding/test and they put me on MATTHEW again. Well, my heart sank. THEN the lady instructor ( I did not have her the first go around) changed me to an Eliminator and told me it was more forgiving. SO right she was!! I had a blast instead of trying to fight with Matthew all day. SO ladies, if possible find out the bikes your MSF class uses then research on their handling. Maybe you will avoid getting a Matthew. They allowed us to pick a bike first day on range. Can't guarantee you will get what you want or hope for, but at least you will have a bit of knowledge about particular bikes. Thanks to all who responded with the excellent instructions on doing the figure 8s. – Susan Elliott Dear
Susan, Wednesday, July 7 Dear
VTwin Mama, I notice that when I'm at a full stop and go to make a right turn, my turns are pretty wide. I have found that speeding up helps me make a tighter turn, and if the bike is in motion my turn is normal. I didn't know if there was advice that may help me make tighter right turns from a stop (besides speeding up and practice). Secondly, I would like help figuring out an overheating problem on a 2001 Honda Shadow Sabre. The bike will overheat when the temps aren't that high (in the 60's) and the bike has been moving (if we're sitting in traffic you can imagine it overheats that much quicker). There isn't any visible leak, but we refill the reservoir after the bike has been parked for a while. I don't know if it makes a difference, but the bike sat outside (although covered) over the winter and so we're thinking it's the seal. Are there any other ideas what could be causing the bike to overheat? Thanks! – Lil Me Dear
Lil Me, I'm just not expert enough to help with a cooling system that seems to evaporate coolant, but can suggest two things: this is so important that it's worth a discussion with your local dealer's service department. Also, if you don't have the maintenance/service manual, get one. This is the exact perfect reason to have it, as the entire cooling system would be laid out with all relevant parts called out, along with troubleshooting tips, routine maintenance, etc. Again, the dealer might have the book or check my Reading Sources page for sites that offer them. – Mama Hey
Mama, Dear
Rose, Saturday, August 7 For Rose who is noodling out how to do better in curves: I to had a bit of trouble in cornering. I was always worried about going off the road. I never actually read about pushing out on the hand grip, I felt it one day when I was turning (wish I had thought of looking it up thou = ) Also when going into a turn or corner, don't look where you don't want to go, rather look to where you want the front tire of your bike to go. The bike tends to go where you are concentrating on. I am fairly new to riding myself. My dad taught me how to ride a 2002 Honda Rebel, he took me to a empty parking lot and I learned how to turn corners and using the parking spot line painted on the ground I learned how to make sharper turns, although I never used cans or balls which I never thought of! Thou now I am a new proud owner of a 2001 Honda Shadow, it's back to the parking lot for me !! For Andrea who is looking at bikes: I am 5'5 , and my sister learned on the same bike; she is about 5'3 and a very light weight. Now I am the bigger of us 2 and I had an easier time handling the bike, but she did great as well. The bike was on the small side for my overall frame, but it is a very very good bike. It got up to about 75 mph , anything over that it tended to feel a little bit wooblie. It corners great, handles real well. I loved it . Had it not been that I was a bit large for the bike I would of kept it. I got bout 110 miles to a tank before having to switch over to reserve. The cons, it is only a 250 cc engine, so doesn't have a ton of get up and go. I was left behind when riding with a friend he has a 750 cc bike. But other than that I can't think of anything really wrong with this bike. They sell tons of stuff you can put on a Rebel: saddle bags, wind screen, etc. Good luck in your choice on a bike !! – Tara (note from Mama: looking to where you WANT to go is an important concept in handling curves -- thank you for the reminder! I'm so proud of you on your adventure in riding and appreciate all the other input you've taken the time to share!) Thursday, September 2 Dear
VTwin Mama, Dear
Kim, Wednesday, September 8 Dear VTwin Mama, Like Louise, I have purchased a Harley Sportster as my first bike. I have been out practicing, in parking lots, six times for about an hour each time. The second time I dumped it in a panic because I accidentally went into the grass. Not to let this stop me, I continued to practice parking lot riding and was doing well. Yesterday I took it out on the road for the first time and dumped the bike again. I was right by our house, a 20 mile an hour road with no cars. I was at a stop sign, intending to turn left and just didn't feel experienced enough to know how fast to go while turning from a dead stop. I was nervous before I went and should have trusted my judgment and not gone out on the road. After yesterday I was questioning my ability to learn. Louise's letter made me feel so much better! I will learn to ride and will not continue to sit on the back of my husband's bike! I know everyone is different but do you have any idea what is a typical length of time to learn to ride before going on the road? Thanks Mama. – No Name Dear No Name, Here instead is what I think might prove to be a more useful measure than time: put up cones, or mark the parking lot with tape or use tennis balls cut in half to simulate a typical 4-way intersection and practice until you are comfortable making the turns. Then, have another rider approach "the intersection" from a different direction from you so that you get used to practicing with an actual traffic "object" to contend with. Do this until your confidence in handling the situation feels good! My guess is that by mimicking that which has stymied you before will no longer be a key issue with a bit of "situation-specific" practice! For some practical advice on handling turns, take some time to read my Curves/Turns page. – Mama Dear
VTwin Mama, Anyway, I just bought a used Yamaha 750CC two weeks go. I'm about 5'8" and it seems a little too big for me. That is, when I sit on the bike and put both feet on the ground, I cannot flat feet it. However, if I put my right foot on the break, the other is comfortably flat on the ground. Do you think the bike is too large or just right for me? I'm a little bit intimidated because this is my first bike. I know the basic of all of the controls like clutch and brake, and I've been riding up and down the alley street (straight line only). People are telling me how difficult it is to make a turn due to the speed - not too fast and not too slow. For this reason, I haven't try it yet. Do you have any advice how to make a turn with a right speed? I'm afraid that the bike may lean too much and fall. I don't think I can pick it back up it it falls. Thanks.– Duke Dear
Duke, From previous postings it has been noted that it isn't absolutely necessary to be flat footed at a dead stop, but the consensus remains that most riders feel more in control if they are. A simple fix would be to get riding boots with a touch more heel or investigate a seat that would lower you somewhat. Making a turn at the right speed takes practice, and an alley isn't the place to begin trying! You want to have room about you without obstacles or distractions that allow you begin practice with plenty of breathing space so that wider turns can be first done so you get the hang of it! Any chance you know an experienced rider that could get the bike to an empty parking lot for practice?! That would be the ideal solution. Don't kid yourself on this point . . . if you don't know anyone, how about checking with local dealers to see what riding groups are around, and then go introduce yourself! Find a mentor. Really. I agree that not knowing how to pick up the bike can cause even more tension in your riding sessions because what are you going to do if it happens? The answer is: learn to pick up the bike! Here is one site with picture by picture instructions. Then, get a piece of old carpet or something, lay the bike down, and give it a whirl (have a friend assist in the lowering of the bike!). Once you master this, your confidence will soar! – Mama Friday, September 10 For Duke who is beginning to ride and had questions on seat height and turns: Hi there . . . reading your site on my lunch hour, and had to send along a few ideas for Duke . . . First, if you feel the bike is too high for you, have you looked into a lowering kit? It could drop the bike an inch or two (which doesn't seem like a lot, but it is), help you feel more grounded. And the idea that VTG [VTwin Goddess :)] gave about getting boots with a bit of a heel is great . . . I did that and it did help me. Second, as far as turns go, I just got a video to help me with the same thing. I found the info on VTG site, and can't wait to try out the techniques. It is at www.ridelikeapro.com. The video I got is for ladies who seem to have a good riding foundation set, as it addressed things like tight turns, leaning, and tips to keep the bike upright no matter what the lean or the speed. I would imagine they would have a video that could give you some tips as well. And how about a riding class . . . have you taken that? Hope this helps a bit, and good luck!!! – Julie (note from Mama: thanks for the additional points and elevating me to Goddess status . . . so much to live up to now! Yes, the video you point out has been a real life saver for many riders who need to master skills or are looking to hone their technique . . . listen folks, riding is a life time commitment to learning, and there is NO getting around that fact!) Dear
Petra (aka
VTwin Mama), Back then, I was on my own just riding through the park and having a wonderful time. I left the park and decided that I was having too much fun to stop so I went up a road I saw many other bikers take. It started out about 3 lanes wide and straight and I was really enjoying the breeze. Then it wound up past the Renaissance Faire and suddenly it was really narrow and going up a hill and really really really twisty. There was a nice guy on a Harley and he kind of followed me up as I took one curve after another with my heart pounding. Suddenly I saw a long straight part (finally!) pulled over, and turned around. I took the road down in a low gear because my teacher told me never to brake in a curve. It was the scariest ride ever and I have always been afraid of that road. Well, back to yesterday - there I was following him and I saw us going to the Very Scary Road and saying "no no no no no don't take me back on this road please" but of course he couldn't hear me. I am not sure I told him about this road, but he was going on ahead so I followed. I kept coaching myself through it and keeping myself calm, but there was only one incredibly scary part where it kept curving forever until I thought I was almost going into a circle, and then the curve finally ended. IT WASN'T SO BAD!!!! Then we got down into Greenwood Lake and went to an orchard. I rode on a dirt and gravel road, then on grass, and we parked to pick some apples - not too many - I was the only one with saddlebags. To exit, we rode on more dirt and gravel - and then through this mud that was in the middle of the whole road and there was no way around it and I DIDN'T FALL!!!! We rode down to another farmstand and got a malted and bought two ears of corn - no room for more - and then rode back along the Very Scary Road but except for the curve I mentioned it wasn't so scary anymore. We had an adventure together, we are an official riding couple, and I want to thank you and all the others on the site for your support and encouragement. By my next ride I will hit 1,000 miles, but the real milestone was yesterday. See you on the road! Love, – Annie B. Dear
Annie, Since he seems to be more in tune with riding with you now, and finding out that you are willing to take on the challenges, I'm wondering if now is not the time to get the Ride Like a Pro video (perhaps the "for the Ladies" version). I don't recall in your past letters if you mentioned that you had purchased this yet. Here's what I'm thinking: it would be of great benefit to you and a chance (if he is willing to sit down and watch it with you), to discuss your continuing learning process. . . to open up a dialog on riding techniques. Even if he resists this, you'll be gaining knowledge and have more ways to talk to him about what you are doing. Hmmmmm . . . just a thought. I was scrolling though the Photo Gallery, and did not see a picture of you and your bike. We'd love to put a face and bike to the Annie B. name . . . many of us follow your saga with great joy as it makes for gripping reading . . . it's like a mini-thriller to see what happens next! Come on, let's get you up on the home page and show the world what another awesome VTwin Mama sister looks like! – Mama Saturday, September 18 For Annie B. who continues to grow as a rider: WAY TO GO ANNIE!! Time and miles seem to be the only things that really make riding better. And it just keeps getting better! I have 2 girlfriends that took the class with me last January; one was riding all over the place - by herself and with crowds (after 2 early falls) - and the other (who also had some early falls) is just now showing signs of being comfortable with it. I almost feel like I bullied her into a ride a couple of weeks ago, but I let her lead so she could set her own pace and by the end of the ride she had a big smile on her face! Keep it up, gal! – Amy Harrison (note from Mama: I'm sure Annie appreciates the "atta girl" support!) Big hugs to Annie B.! – Darija (note from Mama: now that's nice!) Dear
VTwin Mama! Dear
L., The problem with using the brake is that the back one can quickly lock up the rear end of the bike and put you into a skid and too much front could pitch you over the front! But we're not talking about using these controls coming from a high speed situation; rather the use in a controlled, extremely low speed moment. So I see no reason that you couldn't begin experimenting. Choose an open, obstacle-free area to do some practice. Easy does it of course. You might want to pose this question to a Hondamatic discussion forum; I found this one on a Yahoo Group. – Mama Thursday, October 14 To L. Coler who is wondering how to handle tight U turns on an auto tranny bike: Petra is correct that using brakes while turning is taught in the Experienced Riders Course. However, I wanted to point out that at slow speeds, (slow speeds would be defined as ‘moving slow enough that you are required to turn the handlebars to change direction vs. using Counter steering’) it is the REAR brake alone that is used. You don’t want to apply ANY front brake while the handlebars are turned. (I call it ‘rowing on the bars). Using the front brake with the bars turned is asking for a capsize. Appling rear brake alone to control your speed helps load the suspension and creates stability at low speeds. If it were me? I would begin practicing by applying or “dragging” the rear brake while in a straight line. Control the throttle and rear brake together, working the two forces against each other until I had a feel of how the bike responds while straight up and down (which is the safest) Then add the turn, remembering to both turn my head, looking well behind me (not EVER down) and using counter weighting during the turn. BTW? This is also the same technique used with manual transmissions as well. Practice, as always is key. Even if you’re an experienced rider these skills won’t stay sharp if you don’t take them out and use/practice them once in a while. – HammerLady (note from Mama: uh-oh, it's back to riding school for me! Thanks HammerLady, because as an instructor yourself, you provide knowledgeable, useful information to this site and for those who don't know, she oversees a wonderful discussion forum at http://www.shinnysideup.com.) I also want to point out that HammerLady is a VTwin Mama Mentor for beginner riders and on the subject of riding techniques, so feel free to contact her for one-on -one assistance. As you can tell from this response, she is a veritable fountain of know-how that really makes a difference!) Wednesday, November 17 Dear
VTwin Mama, This year I am 50, 5'2" 115 lbs and live in Northern California with a wealth of riding areas, many of which have hills and lots of curves. My new ride is a 2004 BMW R1200C Cruiser with a lowered seat that gets my feet on the ground ;-) Love the ABS and heated handgrips! I retook the MSF in October 2004 which went very well. I learned a lot and had fun. I now have about 1800 miles on my BMW and yesterday my significant other and I rode about 380 miles (long day). We rode some of the distance on the coast - Highway 1, which was beautiful but I couldn't enjoy it as much as I would have liked because I was facing my fears of going downhill. I even resorted to positive self-talk out loud as I navigated multiple decreasing radius left/right turns with traffic coming in the opposite direction. Yet my boyfriend, who hasn't ridden for maybe 20 years and also took the MSF course with me, rides his BMW like he has been riding for years! I keep telling myself that at least I am doing the riding, riding my own ride and facing the areas that make me nervous. Likewise, I am getting the practice I need and that it will get better. So I wanted to thank you and the participants on your website who echoed some of my feelings in their posts and also the tips on U-turns. Do you or your readers have any tips on riding at night? This is another area in which I need improvement. – Ginger Dear
Ginger, What I've been doing is to vigilantly practice my countersteering techniques . . . so instead of just leaning myself into the curve with my knees pulled in so I feel more "one" with the bike, I'm making the bike naturally travel that way also . . . by pressing my hand on the end of the handlebar . . . which sets the bike into the right direction without a huge effort of force. This technique can be practiced in an empty parking lot by heading in a straight line and pressing on the handlebars ends one at a time and noting how the bike wants to move in that direction. Then, try it on curves (setting up cones or other soft markers to mimic the path is useful in that parking lot!). Then, it's off to the road again to begin using it. As you may have noted upon completing your recent course work, the MSF offers an Experienced Rider Course . . . which requires 6 months or 3,000 miles of recent riding time. Here you will do much more work on handling techniques that is entirely awesome, and done on your own bike! Seriously consider taking a closer look at that as your time/mileage approaches the requirements. Yes, some people appear to be more natural at what instills fear in ourselves. This I can't explain! Your job is to continue your learning by educating yourself on the actual techniques of how a bike handles around it's pivot point (the center of gravity), which is what determines how a bike moves when not going straight ahead! I know you can do it as I am continually challenging myself to do better! The only thing I can add on night riding are these points: 1) wear gear with reflective markings and make sure your bike has lots too! and 2) get a good pair of clear lens goggles. Your ability to pre-think and identify danger spots (where cars might enter the road and not see you, etc.) is even more useful at night, so never drink and ride. Let's see what other tips we get! – Mama |
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